Anjem Choudary is as much a believer in earthly utopia as he is in waging war on the West. Sharia law, he argues, not only promises a better future for Muslims, but stands to benefit the whole of society. “In terms of the economic solution there will be free food, clothing and shelter for all citizens, whether Muslim or non-Muslim,” he says. “They’ll have a free house, and gas, electricity and water free of charge. Even in England or other so-called first world countries, people don’t have these things. People work all their lives and get their houses get taken away from them. So there’s no security.”

“There are 55 so-called Muslim countries in the world today, but none of them implement Sharia completely. The only place that’s implemented it is the Islamic State. And in that sense, you can get a window into how it would look. It’s far superior to any place you can imagine in the world today.”

Choudary’s vision casually ignores the bloody reality of life under the Islamic State, where mass killings of Iraqi and Syrian civilians, stories of brutal torture, and the beheadings of Westerners have erupted over the course of this year. “You talk about one or two journalists here and there,” he responds. “It hardly equates to what the British and the Americans have done in the name of democracy. That’s why I see democracy as a disease which needs to be removed. We need Sharia, we need divine law. We cannot allow this anarchy to continue.”